Second car musings - 128i or S2000

"DasWauto" (DasWauto) 07/22/2018 at 22:35 • Filed to: Musings

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As most of us probably wont to do, I’m already thinking about what car to buy next, despite my WRX being less than 2 years old. My current train of thought is either a next gen  WRX/STI, or a 2 car stable with a truck or SUV capable of towing/hauling (because farmer) and a more dedicated fun/summer car. Enter the bimmer/S2K debate.

If you’re thinking those cars aren’t direct competitors, you’re right. They’re different approaches to my requirements for a second car: RWD, manual transmission and a naturally aspirated engine.

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For the purpose of this comparison, I’ll consider the maintenance on these cars a wash, with neither being especially cheap, nor horrendously expensive to run.

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128i Pros:

- cost of entry, half of an S2000 for comparable mileage

- ride comfort/handling balance. BMW’s approach to this just suits me well.

- Straight six sound, hydraulic steering.

- Modification potential. I’d probably leave it alone and run it in street class autoX for the first year or so but the plan would be to spend a fair bit on modifications in the long run. I’d want to do 135i brakes, M3 control arms, Bilsteins/springs and an LSD, all to prepare the car for the biggest draw, a supercharger (the ESS kit is ~$5K). I’d really like to own a supercharged car one day and this would be my way to check that box.

128i Cons:

- performance setup limitations (front camber < -1 deg and needs more, no LSD), this is a biggie as I’ll autocross this car frequently when I can dedicate more time to doing so again.

- Modification costs (see Pros). I’d probably spend the same in car + mods as I would on an S2000 in the long run.

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S2000 Pros:

- dedicated sports car/drivers tool

- 9000 RPM (or 8000 if I go AP2)

- I don’t think I’d need to modify this car. The usual wheels/tires, brake pads/fluid and maybe a swaybar are about as much as I’d see myself doing .

S2000 Cons:

- cost of entry, especially if I want an AP2. The market for these is probably not going to go much lower, if at all.

- stiffer ride, less comfort, especially at my height (speaking of which, I’ll have to see if I fit, but I can’t call that a con until I try).

- twitchy handling at the limit for the AP1, better on the AP2.

- limited tire options if I go with an AP1 (see cost of entry).

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In my relatively short time on this planet, I’ve learned there is no such thing as the perfect car. I will continue on my journey of trying different types of cars to find what suits me best. Given my requirements and the different approaches these options present, which would you take and why?

Nick Has an Exocet > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 22:45

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Devil’s advocate: Mod a Miata.

I probably would go S2000 over 135i. 

HammerheadFistpunch > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 22:48

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Do you need the chamber of understanding?

DasWauto > HammerheadFistpunch 07/22/2018 at 22:52

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Badly. 

DasWauto > Nick Has an Exocet 07/22/2018 at 22:54

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That would probably be the most economical and reasonable  way to go. I have just one c ounterpoint: 6’5”.

(Also, 128i, not 135i, my last 2 cars have been turbocharged and I want either N/A or supercharged throttle response for my next fun car.)

Nibby > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:02

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a 3rd contender has arrived

For Sweden > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:05

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What about Z4?

EDIT: nvm, height requirements

For Sweden > HammerheadFistpunch 07/22/2018 at 23:06

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This is Oppo, we need an Angry Dome

AestheticsInMotion > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:09

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Don’t be so sure. I’m $20k into m odding a Miata, and that’s with 95% performance oriented parts. Suspension, safety, cooling, etc... Still haven’t even gotten to the go-fast bits yet 

My Vote is S2k. They're not getting any cheaper, and if the mod bug ever strikes there's a huge aftermarket. A Supercharged Ap2 is quite the beast... 

DasWauto > For Sweden 07/22/2018 at 23:14

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I’d love a Z4 Coupe (M or otherwise) but they’re rare and generally costly to get into. I’m not keen on the convertibles from an aesthetic perspective and I’m unsure if my height is a problem for them (probably is).

LongbowMkII > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:17

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I’ve been using my S2k (ap1) as my DD this summer. There’s not much to fault. It’s expensive for an almost  20 year old Honda, but it’s still a good value. It’s kinda noisy/harsh in ways that I assume the BMW wouldn’t be. For example you can hear the relay click on the intermittent wiper setting. And I assume the 20 year old bushings aren’t doing the job as well as they once were, but it’s not punishing. 

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:21

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Also. Going to PITL on the 29th?

For Sweden > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:26

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Your note on convertibles says you should buy the 128i

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > DasWauto 07/22/2018 at 23:36

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I’d go ap1 for 9k red line...

Why 128 and not 135? The n54 is amazing...if you want to mode. Otherwise maintenance nightmare so nevermind

DasWauto > For Sweden 07/22/2018 at 23:47

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I was referring only to the Z4 convertible. The S2000 I do like the looks of. 

DasWauto > itranthelasttimeiparkedit 07/22/2018 at 23:49

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Maintenance is one thing and the N54 is indeed great but  my last 2 cars have been turbocharged and I just really want N/A or supercharged throttle response for my next fun car.

DasWauto > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 07/22/2018 at 23:50

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I’m not sure if I can get out of working on the 29th but if I do I’ll be in Barrie for TLMC instead of Brampton for PITL. Are you running that day?

E92M3 > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 00:25

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As you said, there i s no perfect car. Most are designed to b e good at specific task.

A crew cab pickup is the closest swiss army version of a vehicle . But if you’re an enthusiast, it fails at being fun to d rive or b eing sporty. I guess a Raptor could be fu n to drive, but you know what I’m saying.

People will say just rent a truck when you need one. That’s easier said then done. It takes 20 mins to checkout at Home Depot to   buy a new light fixture. The last time I rented a car from Enterprise that took 45 mins of standing in line. It’s a pain to do that everytime you need a truck.

I suppose an E63 Wagon wo uld be a good mul titool too. Then you could just pay extra for delivery of bulky ( or messy) items. But it’s not going to give that light  and nimble feeling at AutoX.

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 01:18

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Hopefully. TL MC won’t let the Juke run, but PITL will.

AM3R, lost another burner > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 01:53

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I'm a big bmw guy but I pine for an S2000 all the time. That said, how is the E46 M3 market near you? 

No Prius Needed > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 02:36

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S2K. They unfortunately seem to be appreciating. 

Derpwagon > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 02:38

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S2000, because for a second car I want a dedicated sports car or gt car.

Aso, fuck maintaining a German car

WRXforScience > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 03:02

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Do you fit in an S2000? I was seriously considering an S2k back in 2014 when I bought my BRZ; however, I autocrossed a friends AP1, and thanks to the non-adjustable steering wheel, the steering wheel directly blocked my view of the tachometer.

With the S2k’s climbing in price, I’d recommend an 86. If you want more power out of it, there are a number of supercharger kits available (Edelbrock offers to honor the manufacturer’s warranty on cars with their kits).

My BRZ has as much rear seat room as a 128 (essentially none), but is more practical since the seats fold down and the trunk is bigger (plus they come with an lsd). There is even the option of the spec class (SSC) for the twins (pre-2017 only). I’m STX prepped but I’ve got a friend with an SSC FRS and both work well on the track. The SSC cars lack an exhaust and tune, so don’t drive a twin with a tune or you’ll never be able to be happy with the torque dip.

Here’s a Cosworth supercharged FRS for $18.9k, which is what a good S2k would cost. Or, here’s a low mileage NA FRS for $11.5k (supercharger kits cost $4k -$7k).

I’m excited by rumors of the next BRZ which is supposed to come with a 2.4L engine from the new 7 seater SUV (the SUV has a turbo, but the BRZ never will).

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 04:11

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HAHAHA ... I’m a veritable dwarf compared to you and I find my S2k cramped.

DasWauto > RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire 07/23/2018 at 05:31

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:<

DasWauto > WRXforScience 07/23/2018 at 05:36

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I have a tough time fitting in an 86 with a helmet on, I need to gangster lean the seat. Admittedly, I’ve only tried in the passenger side,  maybe the drivers’s is more height adjustable(?). I do like them though and it would tick the supercharged itch, maybe I’ll have to look into aftermarket seats. 

DasWauto > E92M3 07/23/2018 at 05:40

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My WRX ( and other awd sport compacts like it) is about as close to perfect as far as my needs/wants go, and it’s far from perfect. :)

I can definitely make a case for needing a truck given where I live and what I do, and I almost did before I bought my Subaru, but I’ll need a sporty car alongside it to satisfy the  enthusiast driver as well. Hence this discussion. 

DasWauto > AM3R, lost another burner 07/23/2018 at 05:42

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A bit higher than the S2000 market for a good one, and I’d need to buy a good one. It is in the list of contenders though, as is the lesser 330i zhp. 

Killface > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 06:21

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A sway bar on an S2000? Have you ever driven an S2000? I’ve considered putting a more mild sway bar on my AP1 given it’s tendency to oversteer. It’s got the most aggressive stock sway bar I’ve ever owned.

You should drive both because these cars are different. The S2000 is pretty focused on being a weekend or track toy.

AM3R, lost another burner > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 06:59

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Tbh i’d go M3 or S2000. I love the N52 in my 328i but if this car isn't gonna be a daily driver might as well get something more exciting! 

Arrivederci > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 08:03

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S2000 all the way.

WRXforScience > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 08:06

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The driver’s side does have a height adjustment, but I’m not sure if it gets much lower than the passenger’s seat. The tallest person I’ve had in mine i s 6'3" and he fit fine with a helmet but there are limits.

There are also aftermarket seats. My BRZ is my only vehicle, so I’ve avoided racing seats. Most lower the seating position though. If you don’t fit, you don’t fit. Most clubs I race with have rules about convertibles, you have to pass the “broom test” where the top of your helmet cannot be higher than any of the rollbars (you might have trouble with the S2K there, so you might have to consider race seats anyway).

A couple of my friends are BMW techs, and their war stories and my previous ownership of a hand-me-down 740iL make me cringe at the idea of another BMW (of course I race with a number of guys who run them without major issues, but German cars have been ruined for me).

I think the performance and driving dynamics of a 128 would be too close to your WRX to be much of an upgrade (definitely a step up in the refinement and comfort, but a lateral move in performance).

It comes down to what you’ll actually do with the car. I’m either at the track or at an autox almost every weekend (sometimes both), but most people’s priorities and needs are different. A 128 would make a fantastic commuter and occasional autox/trackday car. An S2000 is fantastic at the track and autox, but they’re getting harder to come by (and going up in price). There are few truly bad choices, so whatever you end up with you should embrace.

itranthelasttimeiparkedit > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 09:10

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I just realized, not sure that I have driven a turbo car before my current n54, and not sure I have ever driven a supercharged one...

DasWauto > WRXforScience 07/23/2018 at 10:37

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I previously autocrossed almost every other weekend, both days if possible. I don’t have time to do so right now but I intend to get back to that. I’d like my second car to be DD-able but my commute is short and traffic is a non-issue so I’m somewhat flexible on livability. Track days are something I’d like to try but the nearest venue is 2 hours away so whatever I get wi ll never get frequent track use.

It’s all a balancing act and whichever car I buy will be compromised in some way for what I want to do with it. I’m gonna have to try both, as well as some other candidates (86, e46 330i ZHP/M3). 

DasWauto > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 10:40

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WRX (et al)  is just about p erfect for a one-car-to-do-it-all stable, that is...

DasWauto > AM3R, lost another burner 07/23/2018 at 10:41

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That’s a very fair point. An M3 will stay on my list and I’ll  have to try one before I make any choice to buy.

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 13:07

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Seeing how tall you are, may I suggest a third gen MR2 (2ZZ swapped ideally)? They’re surprisingly roomy and used to match or even beat NB MX-5s in autocross.

Edit: you're in Canada, right? Never mind then, unless you find an imported one.

DasWauto > Out, but with a W - has found the answer 07/23/2018 at 15:43

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Did they not sell them in Canada? I’m fairly sure I’ve seen a few.

Looks like Kijiji has one in left hand drive and a few Japanese imports. I could check this one out, it’s nearby:  https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/guelph/2001-toyota-mr2-spyder-convertible/1371388692?utm_campaign=socialbuttons&utm_content=app_ios&utm_medium=social&utm_source=ios_social

AM3R, lost another burner > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 16:05

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I'm excited to see what you end up with. I think an S2000 would make a great companion to my 335i, and ultimately I think I'll thin down the herd to just those two if I were to buy one. 

B_dol > DasWauto 07/23/2018 at 20:05

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If it’s a true second car I feel like the S2000 is the better weekend warrior while the Bimmer dabbles too well in daily luxury.

Currently sitting with a Z4M coupe, RF Miata and Mazda3 (AT) hatch in the stable. Already thinking of how I can swap around those last two for a more practical yet still fun garage. Wife likes the idea of swapping the Miata for a gently used Golf R or Focus RS.

DasWauto > B_dol 07/24/2018 at 00:04

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The extra comfort certainly wouldn’t hurt, especially given my WRX’s lack thereof. The roads around here are generally straight and boring and true performance driving would be limited to autoX and maybe a few track days, though I don’t see myself getting really into that. As you can probably guess, I’m leaning toward the BMW. 

Out, but with a W - has found the answer > DasWauto 07/24/2018 at 06:46

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Don’t think so. See if you can find a 2004 or 2005, as they should still be illegal to import?

That’s a very clean one, though quite expensive. If you do manage to find a facelifted one (03+), go for one of those, their engines are quite a bit more reliable.

B_dol > DasWauto 07/24/2018 at 10:33

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Can’t go wrong, the 1er is certainly a capable car and one of the last properly sized BMWs. Truth be told I wanted to like the S2000 as well, but a few test drives proved I was over buzzy, low torque cars (for now). 

DasWauto > B_dol 07/24/2018 at 13:23

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Agreed - the 128i is the last small N/A I6 BMW and I think it’ll be a future classic as a result, not that I’d consider the car any sort of investment for that reason; I will modify and drive the car hard.

The lack of low end grunt is a concern on the S2K for me as well, I enjoy midrange power and torque,  but I can’t judge it until I drive one.

LongbowMkII > DasWauto 09/13/2018 at 21:47

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the s2k takes supercharging like a champ easily. 

LongbowMkII > DasWauto 09/13/2018 at 21:52

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also as far as the twitchy handling of the AP1 s2k goes i’ve found it easy on the street in reason . I t lets you know when its getting close, the trick to driving them fast is getting real close to that limit , which for obvious reasons I haven’ t explored on the street.

DasWauto > LongbowMkII 09/17/2018 at 22:29

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I appreciate the feedback. Unfortunately, I’ve had to cross the S2K off my list of candidates . I tried one at my last autoX event and it’s just too tight for me, my knees interfere with my steering and keep me from  driving the car properly. :(